Geek Wars I: Star Trek vs. Star Wars

[joshuapalmatier]

OK, I realize that by bringing this up it will create an uproar and perhaps infighting among the ranks . . . but I'm evil and I like infighting. It weeds out the weak.

So, which of the two do you favor: Star Trek or Star Wars? I'd like to say that I put them in alphabetical order . . . but that would be a lie. I prefer Star Trek. I'm not sure why--I like them both--but if I had to choose between the two and say which is my favorite, it would be Star Trek. I like the movies (even the bad ones), I like the TV shows (even the bad ones), I like the ships, the phasers, the cultures, etc, etc, etc. I just . . . like it.

This probably came about because my dad watched the TV show (the original series) and so I was exposed to Star Trek at an early age. So that's one reason I think I enjoy it more. But another reason is that I like the characters better. I can associate with them better or sympathize with them more than the Star Wars characters. I also like the universe better. Perhaps because the idea is that it's a direct extension of our own universe, whereas Star Wars is set in a "galaxy far, far away". That makes it more removed to me for some reason. And finally, I like the story lines and plots better. Star Trek makes an attempt (not always succeeding I grant you) to say something about our own world and human nature. I don't see that in Star Wars.

So, those are my initial thoughts on the two. Brought to you by the upcoming Star Trek movie in which Hollywood hopes to "resurrect" the Star Trek franchise. I wasn't aware that it had died in the first place (I'm still buying the books and the DVDs for example). But where do YOU fall? Who's side are YOU on?

Let the infighting begin!

Comments

[agilebrit.livejournal.com]

NEITHER. I prefer Farscape and Firefly. :p

[lhynard.livejournal.com]

I love Firefly but think Farscape is trash -- no offense. Do you find them to be similar? I know a lot of people who like both; to me they are drastically different. Or are they very different but still good in your mind?

[ramblin-phyl.livejournal.com]

Ooooh, you do like to stir up a hornets nest.

I've been watching Star Trek since it first came on TV on network, before syndication. Yeah, I'm that old. I love the Classics, TNG, most of DS9, and Enterprise. I like the metaphors about our lives today and the way Rodenberry allowed us to look at controversy side-ways, without the barrier of our prejudices coming between us and the story.

I also saw Star Wars in the theater first run. I love the retelling of Arthur and Excalibur. The epic story arc of the first trilogy touched me deeply. I watched most of Phantom Menace and refused to have anything to do with the the other two even on free TV. I felt betrayed by the incredibly awful script and the wooden acting. It was like Spielberg tried to hurry his way through because he had something more interesting to do. He'd locked himself into a story line of turning an honorable man into Darth Vader with no way out and no patience to do it right.

So I think I'll fall back on Babylon 5, Farscape, and Firefly.

[lhynard.livejournal.com]

It was like Spielberg tried to hurry his way through because he had something more interesting to do.

I agree, except that it was Lucas. (Spielberg still makes good films.)

[dragonmyst.livejournal.com]

hmmm...

I think both have good and bad points to them. I have enjoyed them both.

As a small child I used to go to sleep listening to the old record of the soundtrack to The Empire Strikes Back. To this day I think I love the music from the Star Wars Movies more than the movies themselves. And fyi, I do NOT count Episodes I, II, and III as part of Star Wars. But thats just me.

I remember sitting in excitement and watching the pilot for Star Trek Next Generation. I thought it was cool the the dude that played Gurney Hallek from Dune was the Captain of the Enterprise. We watched Next Generation almost religiously. I never cared for DS9 much, but I LOVED Voyager.

I think I could safely say I prefer the Star Trek universe to the Star Wars one.

but to be perfectly honest I think Babylon 5 beat both of them. :D

[jpsorrow.livejournal.com]

Huh, that's weird, because I loved DS9 the most. Voyager got really good once they encountered the Borg and Seven became part of the show.

And . . . um, I haven't seen Babylon 5.

[will-couvillier.livejournal.com]

While not being a flagrant Trekkie, I will admit to liking Star Trek over Star Wars. And, as an example of why it 'died', I'll say that Voyager was the best, for me, of the ST series and Enterprise the worse. This is not saying that I disliked Enterprise -- this is saying that the more actiony, more advanced Voyager appealed more to me. We were seeing humanity advance -- no matter that most or the tech advances was from stealing alien technology -- and overcoming terrible odds. Then we jump backwards. That put me right into the Star Gate camp for my SF fix.

The movie? I'm there! (and yes, I do know it is taking us even farther back than Enterpise.)

[barbarienne.livejournal.com]

and yes, I do know it is taking us even farther back than Enterpise.)


-->But it's not! Enterprise takes place before the original series, doesn't it?

[sartorias.livejournal.com]

I like Trek, though I haven't watched the latest incarnations on TV. I loved the first three Star Wars, but lost interest when the fourth/first came out, as the writing was so abysmal and the story so static, despite a screen filled with fabulous effects and pretty people.

[jpsorrow.livejournal.com]

OMG, episode 1 of SW was horrible. He somehow lost track of the heart of SW during the intervening years.

[tcastleb.livejournal.com]

Star Trek, all the way. Largely because I found TNG in sixth grade, developed a huge crush on Tasha Yar, and found a very good group of friends who were Trekkies, and we'd all play Star Trek at recess. I still have my 113 Star Trek action figures, and had a ton of cards and books and magazines and other stuff, but I sent most of that to my cousin. And Star Trek also got me writing seriously in college; I'd written as a kid, but toward the end of my bachelor's in music, I needed something creative that wasn't music, so I started writing this TNG/DS9 fanfic with some of my own characters. Then I realized I couldn't sell it, so I rewrote it into my own world and kept learning how to write well. So I owe Star Trek quite a bit. If I were a little older, maybe I would have liked Star Wars better, but I was too young when it came out.

TNG is still my favorite, though a few months ago I got all the original ST DVD's from the library and had fun watching them. I liked most of DS9. Voyager didn't do much for me, but I watched most of it. Enterprise, I kept forgetting when it was on or working or something so I didn't get to watch much.

[jpsorrow.livejournal.com]

And yet Tasha Yar dies . . . hmmm. And 113 action figures! I'm impressed. *grin*

[lhynard.livejournal.com]

I don't have a preference. There are elements I like and dislike in both. Some things are better in one than the other. Trek had better science fiction; Wars had better fantasy.

I have a major problem with both in that they didn't know when to quit. After a certain point, you need to retire characters and let others do things. How many times does it have to be Luke or Kirk who saves the universe?

[jpsorrow.livejournal.com]

I agree with everything you've said.

[vcmorris.livejournal.com]

Definitely a bigger fan of Star Trek than Star Wars even though I did have a rather large poster of Darth Vader in my bedroom as a teenager. Darth Vader is just, well, ahem - pretty darn sexy imho, but them I'm a little strange, perhaps. (It was my ONLY Star Wars poster and I never had any for Star Trek). Darth Vader was the one and only character in Star Wars I really liked.

Star Trek, well, all the characters were likable in their own quirky way. I prefer the originals or TNG to any of the other spin-offs and have enjoyed all the movies, whereas after Star Wars #2, (That would be, what? The Empire Strikes Back?) I lost interest and couldn't tell you a thing about them beyond what I've read in magazines or online. It's easy for me to flip by any of the Star Wars movies when they're on TV but nearly impossible to pass by an Original Star Trek episode.

Also, I think, Star Wars started to rely more on super special effects than anything else to get your attention. All the special effects in the world don't mean diddly if the story behind them isn't strong.

[jpsorrow.livejournal.com]

Darth Vader was definitely the most interesting character in SW. Han Solo was the most fun and c0mes in a close second. But in the end, ST had so many more interesting characters.

[http://users.livejournal.com/la_marquise_de_/]

I'm a Trek girl. I came into Sf and fantasy partly via Trek books and shows and I always found the series more appealing than SW. I found the latter too predictable and it tended to value sfx over character, too. Plus I am that one woman in N thousand who does not swoon over Harrison Ford.

[jpsorrow.livejournal.com]

I wrote a few ST short stories, but never felt the urge to write in the SW universe. And that says it all really.

[bright-lilim.livejournal.com]

Before the prequels it would have been hard to choose. But now I have to admit that I like Star Trek more. I watched the Next Gen religiously when I was younger but now I'm more of a fan of DS9.

But I prefer written sci-fi to TV sci-fi. With the possible exception of Farscape. Firefly could have become a real phenomenon but had too few episodes.

[bright-lilim.livejournal.com]

Oh, I'm going to *shun* the next ST movie with all of my heart. Instead of continuing DS9's plotlines we're going to get warmed up leftovers? BAH!! Bah I say!

[pbray.livejournal.com]

I enjoyed portions of both franchises, and in my teens self-identified as a Trekkie, but over the years I lost my blind devotion for the show. I remain fond of portions of TNG and DS9, but Voyager and Enterprise left me cold.

For Star Wars I loved the original three movies. The later trilogy destroyed the affection I'd felt for the franchise, so much so that I only saw one the first in the theater and then gave up in disgust.

But as far as that stage of fan devotion where you buy the DVD's, read the stories, haunt the websites, well neither Star Trek nor Star Wars commands my devotion these days. Farscape was my last great fandom.

So as far as a new Star Trek movie--well I'll be willing to go along with you to see it, of course. But it's not a major event for me, nor do I feel an emotional connection. It's akin to seeing the child of a former friend perform in a recital--it would be nice if they did well, but I'm not emotionally invested in the outcome.

[barbarienne.livejournal.com]

It's akin to seeing the child of a former friend perform in a recital--it would be nice if they did well, but I'm not emotionally invested in the outcome.

-->Yes, that's it precisely. I will see it to see if it is any good, but I don't have any hopes.

Also, I will see it to see Karl Urban. Just because.

[fireun.livejournal.com]

i have enjoyed both to an extent, but like with anything that goes on seemingly indefinitely, i never got attached to either, and fell off the interest wagon ages ago. i got distracted by something shiny...bored...who knows. i cant summon up the interest to pursue either of them anymore.i did read a handful of the SW books (those buggers started coming out too often, so i gave up) and have never read any of the ST books. i think i lose geek cred for admitting this.


that being said...can i cast a side vote for Firefly?

[jpsorrow.livejournal.com]

Bah! Firefly is in a later Geek War! Stay tuned.

[anghara.livejournal.com]

Star Trek is, in whatever way you slice it, despite the ocasional detours, science fiction. Star Wars, despite the presence of planets and starships, is FANTASY (princesses and cute forest-dwelling teddy bears and admirals looking like cod in Uniform, oh my!). I think I appreciate them on different levels.

Er, let me amend that ever so slightly and say right up front that I am talking about the original Star Wars. The last three films I do not appreciate on any level, other than of how much of a waste of story they were.

But if you're asking what the best SF&F show out there is - Babylon 5. Without a pause, without a hesitation, without the slightest doubt, it is by far the best thing in the genre that I've seen. For depth, for story cohesiveness, for the joy and drama of its characters' interactions - there's nothing out there to approach it, let alone match it.

[jpsorrow.livejournal.com]

I agree that SW is fantasy in the end and ST is SF. I haven't seen Babylon 5, but enough people recommended it here that perhaps I'll have to check it out.

[jaxom92.livejournal.com]

Star Wars (the original trilogy at least) will always hold a fond place in my heart as a great space adventure yarn. All around awesome story.

Star Trek, on the other hand isn't necessarily about the adventure. At least for me. The one thing I can pinpoint in the series that really stands out to me is the unbridled optimism for the human race as a whole. I watch Star Trek and I can forget that we're really just a bunch of self-centered idiots.

And for me, the Next Generation is my favorite, having grown up on the latter seasons and subsequent syndication. To me, this series kept the clearest spirit of the original, but still tried to do something different.

[jpsorrow.livejournal.com]

I certainly love the first three movies made, MUCH MUCH more than the later 3. But yes, I think ST if more of a "thinking" show and less adventure overall.

And you gotta love the optimism.

[shanrina.livejournal.com]

I've never seen Star Trek, but I really dislike Star Wars. Or rather, when I saw the first trilogy I thought they were rather blah, and I've since been forced to sit through them so many times that I now actively hate them. I will be seeing the new Star Trek movie (on DVD because I like being able to rewind, fast forward, pause, etc.), though, because I'm a fan of Karl Urban and Zoe Saldana. ST also gets another point for being a source of (IMO) funnier parodies, like Galaxy Quest and the Futurama episode about Trekkies. So if it came down to a choice between the two, ST wins because the next person who tries to make me sit through the original SW trilogy is going to

My all-time favorite science fiction TV series is actually Futurama. I've seen about half of Firefly, but when I realized the show was going to be focusing more and more on the characters I disliked (Simon and River--ugh) I just gave up. Wish I'd figured that out before I bought it, though.

[shanrina.livejournal.com]

Guh. Didn't finish a sentence. It should have read "...the next person who tries to make me sit through the original SW trilogy is going to die a very painful death in my next book."

[barbarienne.livejournal.com]

The Empire Strikes Back beats everything. It just does.

That said, when both teams are looked at in aggregate, Trek wins. If we eliminate the bottom-tier crap from both sides (SW eps I-III; ST: Enterprise, ST: Voyager, a number of individual episodes from the end of the original series), Trek still wins.

If we eliminate the second-tier-but-tolerable crap from both sides (Return of the Jedi; the first three seasons of TNG), Trek still wins.

SW might have edged a win with its sheer adrenaline put up against Trek's thinkiness, but Trek has demonstrated adrenaline plus thinkiness in enough places (last few seasons of DS9, Wrath of Khan, and whichever number movie with the Borg) to offset it.

Of course, my opinion may be clouded by the fact that I actually watched all 6 SW movies, but quit Trek halfway through season 3 of Voyager. I have avoided the very worst Trek has to offer.

[jpsorrow.livejournal.com]

TESB is DEFINITELY the best of the SW movies. And I think you've thought about this whole issue FAR too much. Tiers! Many, many tiers!

[sylvia-rachel.livejournal.com]

Before the prequels it would have been hard to choose. But now I have to admit that I like Star Trek more.

What s/he said.

I grew up watching ST on TV in syndication, and I think it's fair to say that my tastes in entertainment were shaped by Kirk, Spock et al. (and also by Dr Who, which my family watched religiously every weeknight for years); at the same time, as a child of the mid-1970s I could not have avoided exposure to SW if I'd tried, and have probably been forever marked by the fact that Return of the Jedi was the very first movie I ever saw in a real movie theatre.

I'm happy to watch the original Wars trilogy over and over, and I have great affection for much of Trek (though Enterprise got über-stupid toward the end, and some of the films, well, the less said the better). But the more recent Wars movies seemed to me to be victims of their predecessors' success (and particularly of the success of ILM; Lucas, or somebody, seems not to have heard of the idea that just because you can do something it doesn't mean you should). Trek at its best is thought-provoking and intelligent; Wars is just fun.

In recent years I've moved on to other things, mostly (Babylon 5, Firefly ...). But both franchises, as I said, have left their marks. In my family, when you want to alert someone who has left the couch that the commercial break is over, you holler "Star Trek!", and if you are the person who has left the couch you inquire "Is it Star Trek yet?" Prodding the remains of a broken object of any sort, you might remark, "It's dead, Jim." "Did you anger the Picard?" DH might ask me if he sees our six-year-old stomping off to her room. And there's nothing quite like the voice of Worf intoning "You. Are without. Honour." to really express your disapproval. Similarly, there's a Wars quote for just about every occasion. Most usefully, if we hear someone whining about anything, whether on TV or IRL, DH and I will look at each other and, in unison, whine "But I was going into Tashi Station to pick up some power converters!"

[jpsorrow.livejournal.com]

I can't say that my family uses the quotes from the movies QUITE this much, but they've both certainly had their influence on us all. And I'd sit and watch the ST shows any time I ran across them on TV. The SW ones I can pass up if necessary.

[cedunkley.livejournal.com]

Well, the original Star Wars Trilogy tops Star Trek overall for me. That said, I've really enjoyed all of the Star Trek TV shows.

Setting aside Kirk and Spock as my favorite Star Trek characters, my favorite of all the ST shows is Deep Space 9.

That series really tackled a whole host of issues to a far greater degree than the previous ST series. While episodes of those other series would touch upon serious issues, DS9 really fleshed them out. From showing the impact of Faith, and Racism and Nationalism and the blindness of Ideology to a whole host of other powerful emotions DS9 really worked best for me.

That said, I still have to tip my hat over to Star Wars. The original trilogy had that grand scale of good vs evil. And while I like the Star Trek music, John Williams' score on the Star Wars movies really changed music in movies. And Empire Strikes Back really stands above the rest.

When it comes to books set in each universe, I've only read a few Star Wars books (and those were the original spin-off books like Splinter Of The Mind's Eye and Han Solo and Stars End (if I recall the titles properly)).

I've never read a Star Trek spin-off. But that doesn't mean much as I'm not one who reads books set in such pre-existing SF/F worlds.

So, while I am a huge Star Trek fan (though not a Trekkie) I still have to give Star Wars the edge for capturing that old-school good vs evil just right. And for making you hate Vader in one movie and then cheer for him in the next.

I liken Vader to Michael Corleone. Both men started out expecting to be something very different and went down a path that took them as far from who they were without breaking completely. And then fought to try and redeem themselves.

[jpsorrow.livejournal.com]

ST is certainly more focused on the issues, which is probably why I'm drawn to it more. SW is just FUN.

I've read many of the books on both sides and have to say the SW books tend to be much better overall, but I like the ST shows more.

[libwitch.livejournal.com]

wait? *looks around frantically* I am supposed to choose?! As long as you don't make me choose betweeen STNG and SW, am I fine, but man, choosing between the two, I just can't do. Not without meditation, chocolate, and possibly, booze.

And consultation with Will Wheaton.

[jpsorrow.livejournal.com]

It's a war! You can always play both sides and be a double agent and all that. *grin*

[ashkta.livejournal.com]

I do like both Star Trek and Star Wars, but in terms of a long term favorite, Star Trek leads. I love the characters, and I feel closer to the story line. Maybe because I was introduced to it early on with the first series, maybe because there's just more of it. I don't know, exactly. I mean, yeah, I do love Star Wars. I watched it every christmas on USA for about three encore runs in a row. But it's still this huge over-arching movie thing whereas Star Trek is more like...I don't know. Like, if I lived in that world, the characters would live next door. If that makes ANY kind of sense.

[jpsorrow.livejournal.com]

I certainly like both of them in the long run, and the characters living next door makes PERFECT sense. *grin*

[ann1962]

I have watched Star Trek since I was a child. I followed along with all the tv versions and movies. I was only able to discover Star Wars in its totality in the last year or so because my 9 year old son was intrigued. Every time I had tried before, I just couldn't get into it and it seemed a little boring. But once I did watch it with my son, I quite enjoyed it. Whiny Anakin was the only part I didn't see as true to the story, otherwise quite fun.

[jpsorrow.livejournal.com]

The original 3 movies were by far the best in the SW universe. I didn't believe the story arc and character development in the most recent 3. Too much time spent on special effects in the end, I think, not enough on character and story.

[scbutler.livejournal.com]

Star Wars at its best is much, much better than Star Trek at its best. Unfortunately there all those moments, from the goddam Ewoks on, where Star Wars is much, much worse than the worst Trek.

[jpsorrow.livejournal.com]

So ST is middle of the road but consistently better than SW? But then SW got you with the whole jump through hyperspace thing, right? There's no way to bring you to the ST side after that, I'm sure. *grin*

duel

[faithhunter.livejournal.com]

Two swords out, darlin.
I like them both and will fight to the death for them have right-to-life and readers.
Faith

Re: duel

[jpsorrow.livejournal.com]

I certainly like them both in the end, but I only wrote short stories set in ST, not SW, which pretty much says it all from the writer's perspective I think.

HH in Space

[vespican.livejournal.com]

I'll cast my vote on the side of Star Trek! I'm old enough to remember watching the original series on prime time TV. I think the other shows on that evening were Daniel Boone (with Fess Parker) and Laredo. I'm also a Horatio Hornblower fan, and there seems to be a connection between the character of Kirk and Hornblower. I've read that Roddenberry was also a Hornblower fan, and that he even created the aft end of the Enterprise's nacelles to resemble the stern castles of 18th century warships.

These days, the special effects in the original series seem so primitive. It's more like watching a stage play with a minimun of props. We are forced to imagine a little. To me that made the show very effective, and of them all, I probably like the original series the best. (But then, I even liked Enterprise and was disappointed when it went off the air. Perhaps it would have been better had "they" approached it as a play and not gotten so caught up in the special effects.
Dave

Re: HH in Space

[jpsorrow.livejournal.com]

They certainly played off the HH correlation with TNG in a bunch of places, so I agree with you there. I have a hard time watching the original (probably just a little too much before my time), but loved DS9 the best in the end. So much more done with character and cohesive story lines and arcs.

[dynastic-queen.livejournal.com]

There is no way in hell, in heaven, or on earth that I could choose between STAR TREK and STAR WARS. No way.

[jpsorrow.livejournal.com]

Oh, come on! It's not like the fate of the world hangs in the balance! *grin*