Titles: Attempt #2

[joshuapalmatier]

Hmm . . . everyone provided good thoughts on the last set of proposed titles, giving me much to think about. I agree that Leaves of Fire sounds nice but has no solid impact. It's just kind of meh. And while I like Flames of Heaven, I totally missed its similarity to Robert Jordan's book and Alma Alexander's book. While I may accidentally make a few additional sales to people thinking they're getting the Jordan or Alexander books . . . it's probably not the best marketing strategy. *grin*

So, I've come up with two sets of possible titles for the three books. The first deals with the elemental comments everyone made. Two fires and one water was not good. Obviously I can't do all 4 elements, since it's a trilogy *whistles quietly to himself, eyes gazing upwards* but I can get away with three of them. What does everyone think of:

Book 1: Well of Sorrows
Book 2: The Burning Tree
Book 3: Breath of Heaven

The second book breaks the "blank" of "blank" pattern, I know, but I'm hoping the elemental pattern is dynamic enough to get people through that. I also feel that the second book's title isn't as powerful as the other two. Or as evocative I guess.

The other suggestions are more difficult, but are based on the idea of object and emotion or emotional state. One of the worries with the first book's title is that it suggests that the book is . . . well, depressing. I don't think the book is depressing, although it certainly isn't filled with chipmunks and rainbows. But anyway, here are those suggestions:

Book 1: Well of Sorrows
Book 2: Tree of Anguish or Leaves of Justice or Branches of Pain or some variant thereof (see previous LJ post on the image that's driving the novel).
Book 3: Flames of Redemption or Fires of Judgment or something along those lines.

I actually like "anguish" for book 2. It fits the theme of the novel as a whole. It's the middle book. Things start off OK and then steadily decline until the very end of the book, when pretty much everything goes to hell and makes all of the characters who have been sitting back twiddling their thumbs stand up and go "Oh, shit!" The burning tree is the metaphorical symbol of "Oh, shit!" And it has those cages for criminals hanging from it as well. And I like "redemption" better than "judgment", although judgment would fit the ideals of the book more.

Any thoughts now?

UPDATE: Ok, after a few comments and numerous IMs back and forth, what about:

Book 1: Well of Sorrows
Book 2: Leaves of Anguish
Book 3: Flames of Sacrifice

Comments

[jtglover.livejournal.com]

FTW: Sorrows --> Anguish --> Redemption

Nice thematic unity in the sample sets you put up.

[jpsorrow.livejournal.com]

What about:

Book 1: Well of Sorrows
Book 2: Leaves of Anguish
Book 3: Flames of Sacrifice?

[jtglover.livejournal.com]

Nice! I can see thematic unity in that. The well/leaves/flames also hangs together nicely.

[anghara.livejournal.com]

I'm sorry but "branches of pain" sounds like something that you would find as a title of a paper at a psychiatrists' convention [grin]

I would try and go with a "[something] of [something]" trope for all three titles which gives it a sort of rounded look for a trio of related titles - in other words, while "The Burning Tree" might be a good title it doesn't fit your pattern.

I'd suggest

Well of Sorrows
Leaves of Anguish
Fires of Redemption

see what you think

[jennifer-dunne.livejournal.com]

Oooh, yeah, Leaves of Anguish is way cool. Hadn't seen that when I wrote my comment.

[jpsorrow.livejournal.com]

What about:

Book 1: Well of Sorrows
Book 2: Leaves of Anguish
Book 3: Flames of Sacrifice?

And yes, Branches of Pain was more of a joke title. *grin*

[anghara.livejournal.com]

Don't like "flames of sacrifice". Just doesn't click. Not a title that would make me pick up a book in a store...

[onyxhawke.livejournal.com]

Sorrows - Pain - Judgment.

I think the three progress nicely, and Judgment while giving a hope of a better end than middle and beginning doesn't promise it like redemption does and allows the tension that Redemption strips.

For the middle... Anguish sounds pretentious, I don't think it is horrid, but I like pain because it is a broader term than anguish to me only evokes the mental end of the spectrum. I suppose Trauma might work for #2 as well.

A combination of Justice and Judgment might lead people to hesitate over the latter thinking they had it because the two are so similar.

[jpsorrow.livejournal.com]

What about:

Book 1: Well of Sorrows
Book 2: Leaves of Anguish
Book 3: Flames of Sacrifice?

[onyxhawke.livejournal.com]

I've seen many, many worse. As long as the titles hold with the actual theme of the book you should be fine. I'm not a huge fan of the word "anguish" but you seem set on it and all i know about the book is that you're writing it. I've yet to find a time when I had a better feel for an unwritten/finished book than the writer. :-)

[miintikwa.livejournal.com]

I love Leaves of Anguish. I would totally pick that up, based on title alone. "Tree of Anguish" is almost as good, IMHO.

(Who, me, goth? No....)

[jpsorrow.livejournal.com]

What about:

Book 1: Well of Sorrows
Book 2: Leaves of Anguish
Book 3: Flames of Sacrifice?

[miintikwa.livejournal.com]

Yes! That is a very good arc, plus I like how "Sacrifice" picks back up with the "Sorrows" aliteration. :)

[jjschwabach.livejournal.com]

Tree of Anguish, if I had to pick from those. I liked the earlier title better, honestly. And I have to agree that "Branches of Pain," sounds medical, though I'd go with a Neurology paper ;-). Perhaps if they were Branches of Something Else...

I agree with
Well of Sorrows
Leaves of Anguish
Fires of Redemption.

[jpsorrow.livejournal.com]

What about:

Book 1: Well of Sorrows
Book 2: Leaves of Anguish
Book 3: Flames of Sacrifice?

[jennifer-dunne.livejournal.com]

You've actually got elements for the second set, too. Water - Wood - Fire (in order, even!), three of the five elements used in Feng Shui. (Water feeds Wood; Wood feeds Fire; Fire feeds Earth; Earth feeds Metal; Metal feeds Water)

That said, "Sorrows" and "Anguish" seem very similar to me, and I expect the third book to have some sort of suffering title. Flames of Atonement, Flames of Punishment. Something like that.

That would make it a very strong set of titles.

The first set doesn't seem as strong, because the you've got the pattern in 2 of the three. If you want to emphasize the elements only, all three need a different pattern. Well of Sorrows, The Burning Tree, Heaven's Breath....

[elizabeth-welsh.livejournal.com]

OOOOhhh Tree of Anguish. That is too good to ignore. I have to tell you honestly that Flames of Redemption seems... preachy? Is that what you intend? It sounds like you've now come up with a title for two that you like as much as one. Are you crazy about three as well, or not there yet?

Assuming that you're not by what you said afterward, perhaps the synonyms will help. For redemption: deliverance, ransom, rescue, salvation. For judgment: decree, determination, edict, pronouncement, appraisal, appraisement, assessment, estimation, evaluation, valuation, conclusion, illation, illative, inference.

I also feel I should point out to you that what you described briefly as the premise for the beginning book is not done justice by "flames"; blaze or even inferno might be a better choice

[jpsorrow.livejournal.com]

What about:

Book 1: Well of Sorrows
Book 2: Leaves of Anguish
Book 3: Flames of Sacrifice?

[difrancis.livejournal.com]

For me, the emotional thread resonates much better.

[jpsorrow.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I liked the emotional thread idea lot better in the end. More involving and active.

[gumnut.livejournal.com]

I'm late coming into this since I was marooned in the land of baby for some time recently, but I thought I'd throw in my two cents.

Sorrows - Anguish - Sacrifice...work really well together. I particularly like the last one.

Well and Flames give me a moving image. Well is the welling up of sorrow (or it could just be a very deep pond, but that welling gives the title some movement in my brain). Flames burn and they flicker in my mind.

But Leaves don't really do anything. They move in the wind, but that is wind. Leaves, left to themselves, just sit there, and unlike the other two words, they lack movement.

So what would I suggest? ::ponders::

::throws words out at random::

bark, forest, growth, thinking greenery...you've got water and fire, that leaves earth and air...

Wind/s of Anguish?

::ponders some more::

Hmmm...Anguished algae just doesn't have the oomph :D

Land/s of Anguish, rock, stone, canyon, plain...more impression than movement...

Wind, gale...gale brings the concept of wailing/moaning to mind...hmmm...

Anyway, I should stop babbling as I have to go to bed. So in summary from that bash at brainstorming above, I'd recommend:

Forest of Anguish
Gale of Anguish
Wind of Anguish

...maybe. I think there should be something better out there and my brain was fried by bubs this afternoon. Did you know that a baby screaming can decimate neurons? ::sigh::

Sorry I pointed out a problem but was unable to provide a solution. Good luck!

Nutty
(I really shouldn't be allowed near a computer without my brain)

[jpsorrow.livejournal.com]

I like the "winds" idea instead of leaves because of the active movement part, but people seem to think that the leaves title makes them . . . curious. Moreso than the winds alternative. Leaves is different.

In the end, I'll make suggestions and see what my editor thinks. She's got the final say on these types of things.

[jlawrenceperry.livejournal.com]

How about this?

1 - Sorrow
2 - Anguish
3 - Sacrifice

Of course, I dig one-word titles, myself.

[jpsorrow.livejournal.com]

The series that comes after this is all one-word titles:

Sorrow (hence the reason I can't use it here)
Eventide
Dawn-spring

I usually go for the one-word titles as well, but they don't seem to be selling.

[jlawrenceperry.livejournal.com]

Stupid market... sigh.... :P

[stillnotbored.livejournal.com]

Book 1: Well of Sorrows
Book 2: Leaves of Anguish
Book 3: Flames of Sacrifice

These are better. The emotions tie all the titles together thematically now and let me know the books are related.

I'm glad all my novels come with titles attached. This stuff is hard when they don't.

[jpsorrow.livejournal.com]

It's hard because I don't really know what the books are about. I only have a few scenes to base this off of, and has been said before, those scenes may change as I write the novel. But titles can change after the fact as well, so I'm probably stressing about this way too much. Or I'm using the titles as a way to procrastinate on writing the synopses. *grin*

[stillnotbored.livejournal.com]

Since I've been known to scrub a kitchen floor in order to avoid a synopsis ::cough:: I can totally relate. *g*

[garlikmongere.livejournal.com]

I like the third set. They sound nice, and they fit together well.

[jpsorrow.livejournal.com]

I think that's what I'm going to go with. Thanks for the help!

[barbarienne.livejournal.com]

Love love LOVE "Leaves of Anguish"!

[jpsorrow.livejournal.com]

That seems to be the fan favorite. Fierce!